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- <text>
- <title>
- (Mar. 02, 1992) Interview:George Wallace
- </title>
- <history>
- TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1992
- Mar. 02, 1992 The Angry Voter
- </history>
- <article>
- <source>Time Magazine</source>
- <hdr>
- INTERVIEW, Page 10
- Confessions of a Former Segregationist
- </hdr>
- <body>
- <p>Now 72 and in failing health, onetime presidential candidate
- George Wallace reflects on racism, David Duke and his own place
- in history
- </p>
- <p>By Michael Riley/Montgomery and George Wallace
- </p>
- <p> Q. You were elected Governor of Alabama four times. At
- your first inauguration in 1963, you uttered your most
- memorable lines: "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow,
- segregation forever." Why did you say that?
- </p>
- <p> A. That's the reason I hate to give people interviews that
- ask about all that stuff. It happened a quarter-century ago. My
- vehemence was against the federal courts. I never said a word
- against black people in my heart since I ran for Governor.
- </p>
- <p> Look at that. [Wallace pulls from his desk drawer an
- honorary doctor of laws degree given to him by Tuskegee
- University, founded as an elementary and secondary school for
- blacks in 1881.] Do you have one of those?
- </p>
- <p> Q. No, I don't.
- </p>
- <p> A. That right there ought to answer a lot of questions
- about my attitude. Now, I shouldn't have said those words. It
- was really aimed at the federal judges. People were mad with
- the federal courts, and I never said anything against black
- people, because they voted for me the last two times. Every
- Governor who ran in 1962 had to face the race question, or they
- would have been defeated.
- </p>
- <p> Jimmy Carter told me if he had run when I ran and I'd run
- when he ran, I might have been the vice-presidential nominee,
- but he never would have been the presidential nominee, because
- he would have had to face that question [about segregation].
- These New South Governors all were elected after the race
- question was settled, and they didn't have to face it. But if
- they had run when I ran and had had to face it, they wouldn't
- have been elected. Our platform was simply this: I will do all
- I can to maintain segregation within the law without violence.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Do you think that stand hurt black people?
- </p>
- <p> A. No. I didn't hurt black people. In fact, I helped black
- people. I appointed three times more blacks than any other
- Governor.
- </p>
- <p> You see, if I had ever said anything in the race for
- Governor that reflected on black people other than being for the
- segregation of the school system, they would never have voted
- for me.
- </p>
- <p> Some of the Governors used to say they were inferior in
- mind and all that kind of stuff. If I had ever said anything
- like that, no decent black person would have ever voted for me,
- and I wouldn't blame them, because all those things aren't true.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Was it wrong to support segregation?
- </p>
- <p> A. Didn't you know back then that people thought it was in
- the best interest of both races? They were all raised that way
- for 150, 200 years, and I believed it was in the best interest
- too.
- </p>
- <p> Q. So how has your view on race changed?
- </p>
- <p> A. It never changed about how I liked black people and got
- along with them. But I realized after about two years as
- Governor that segregation wouldn't work because blacks are more
- educated and more motivated. Either we had to do away with
- segregation or we wouldn't have any peace in this country.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You ran for President four times, including in 1968,
- when you ran as a third-party candidate and captured nearly 14%
- of the vote. Why were you so successful back then?
- </p>
- <p> A. Well, I didn't talk about race. That wasn't an issue.
- I don't think I even mentioned it, except I would like to have
- had anybody, regardless of their race or color or creed, vote
- for me. I didn't even mention race. I did say I was against
- busing but so did the other candidates.
- </p>
- <p> In the 1976 Democratic primary, I carried Boston. I
- carried Beacon Hill. I don't think you'd say that was because
- they hated blacks. I didn't mention anything except busing up
- there.
- </p>
- <p> Q. But wasn't busing a code word for race?
- </p>
- <p> A. No. A lot of blacks were against busing right here in
- Alabama. In fact, if it was a code word, every one of them that
- ran in 1976 was against busing. I wasn't the only one against
- busing.
- </p>
- <p> But the race question is over, and I don't see a need to
- keep talking about it, frankly.
- </p>
- <p> Q. David Duke's message of race hatred has struck a raw
- nerve in this country, and that has prompted comparisons with
- your campaigns for the White House two decades ago. What do you
- think of his message?
- </p>
- <p> A. People who belong to the Klan usually have hated
- blacks. I never did that. I grew up among them. They are some
- of my family's best friends. I wouldn't be for a former member
- of the Ku Klux Klan, especially a man who thought Hitler was a
- great man, because I was in World War II. I didn't run my
- campaign on hate. I ran on cussing the federal courts out about
- trying to run everything themselves instead of letting local
- states run their own democratic institutions.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Is Duke a threat to this country?
- </p>
- <p> A. I don't talk about him much. [He crumples and tosses
- the written question aside.]
- </p>
- <p> Q. From quotas to welfare to Willie Horton, race still
- plays a big role in presidential politics. What can be done to
- change that?
- </p>
- <p> A. Well, I don't know what would change it. We ought not
- to have racial politics because all the citizens of this
- country are citizens, and there ought not to be any race
- involved in the presidential election, frankly.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Let me ask you one last question on race. Do you regret
- the pain you have caused black people?
- </p>
- <p> A. I haven't caused any pain to black people. What pain
- have I caused them? I brought them into state government.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Some of them still regard you as a menace.
- </p>
- <p> A. Blacks in other states don't know me like the blacks in
- Alabama do.
- </p>
- <p> Q. What is your analysis of the presidential race so far?
- </p>
- <p> A. I haven't thought much about it because I have to
- concentrate on this job here. [Wallace is a fund raiser for
- Troy State University in Montgomery.] And I'm in a lot of pain
- all the time. I wasn't in much pain when I was Governor, because
- I was younger and stronger. I'm older and weaker now. I just got
- over a bad kidney infection.
- </p>
- <p> And I finally got rid of it. That's what we die with,
- kidney failure. So if another big bug hits me again like that,
- it may be the last of me.
- </p>
- <p> Q. If you were running for President today, what message
- would you send the American people?
- </p>
- <p> A. We are so enmeshed in deficits that I don't know what
- I would tell them. We've got to the point where we owe so much
- money, and we have lowered the taxes on the wealthy to 28%, but
- we haven't done anything for the middle class. It is hard to
- know what to tell them now, but I wish we could get a fine
- health-care system, especially for those who are uninsured. And
- we ought not let the Japanese treat us like they have treated
- us, because we helped build back their country.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Do you think that your name will be rehabilitated?
- </p>
- <p> A. I can't help that, because the main thing when you die
- is what happens to your soul. I'm a born-again Christian. I
- love everybody; I don't hate anybody. I even pray to the
- Heavenly Father for the fellow that shot me to ask forgiveness
- of his sins, because I have forgiven him. [During his 1972
- presidential bid, Wallace was shot by Arthur Bremer, which left
- him paralyzed from the waist down.] I don't feel bitter toward
- him. I would have wasted myself away if I had been hating all
- these years. I don't hate him at all.
- </p>
- <p> Lyndon Johnson was a segregationist. He also led
- filibusters against civil rights bills, but later on he got them
- passed. So I have been in the same position that he has been in.
- He's been rehabilitated, so I should be also. In the long run,
- it doesn't make all that much difference, because I know that
- I love every citizen of Alabama, black and white.
- </p>
- <p> Q. What do you see as your lasting legacy in race
- relations?
- </p>
- <p> A. I just know they improved in my state under me.
- [Wallace then calls Eddie Holcey , a longtime aide, who is
- black, from an adjoining office.] We love each other too, don't
- we, Eddie? You know, I don't even want to come to the office
- without him. Isn't that right? We've been to funerals together.
- We went to a funeral not too long ago, didn't we? He knows I
- don't hate black folks.
- </p>
- <p> Eddie Holcey: You don't hate me.
- </p>
- <p> A. He voted for me too. His wife did too. We have been
- good close friends, and when I die he is going to be one of my
- pallbearers.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Would you have done anything differently, looking back
- on it all?
- </p>
- <p> A. Anybody that's been in public life as long as I have
- would do different things, yes. There are things that I could
- do different, but I can't think of all of them now. But every
- President and every other person would do some things different
- if they had to go over it again.
- </p>
- <p> Q. How do you think history will remember you?
- </p>
- <p> A. I don't know what they will say. I just know that I
- pray I will be in God's heavenly kingdom when that time comes,
- so I don't worry about what anybody thinks when I leave this
- world, which won't be long.
- </p>
-
- </body>
- </article>
- </text>
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